Diminishing Returns
Posted 06-24-2006 at 12:55 PM by nbcrusader
I enjoyed a recent thread in FYM that highlighted the reason the regular keep returning. I enjoyed reflecting on the last 4 years of participation in what is by and large a civilized debate.
But, I've also come to understand why some loathe FYM. The cynicism, the hypocrisy, the pontification of personal feeling as fact, the instance on tolerance and love that is spat at the reader are daily occurrences. The cost of experiencing this diminishes the value of what we celebrated.
So, to those who avoid, are frustrated by or have had negative experiences in FYM - I understand.
But, I've also come to understand why some loathe FYM. The cynicism, the hypocrisy, the pontification of personal feeling as fact, the instance on tolerance and love that is spat at the reader are daily occurrences. The cost of experiencing this diminishes the value of what we celebrated.
So, to those who avoid, are frustrated by or have had negative experiences in FYM - I understand.
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If I could implement a "No Scorn or Mockery--Ever" rule in there, Doug, I would, because I really do think that would go a long way towards smoothing over the worst gaps in understanding. But it would also overstep the bounds of what our modding philosophy calls for, and I don't think anyone would really be happy with the level of intervention it would require.
As far as the rest goes, I do think some of it's the natural outcome of people having different thought processes, and to a point that's inseparable from the same diversity of perspectives that (on a good day) also makes it rewarding. Some people feel their way through and try to comprehend how situations might be experienced from inside, others critically scan a stance's internal logic in the abstract, and there's even a few who seem to combine the two. Each approach has its blind spots--I think some suspicions of hypocrisy may be inevitable between the first two camps at least, because the thought processes being used are so different, and you can never fully "get" how someone who thinks very differently from you arrived at the conclusions they did. Always there's the inclination to assume that mine is the only truly rigorous way of thinking, and the other way mostly a form of irresponsibility or laziness. And it doesn't help that we all have some tendency to choose our words to impress, rather than to accurately represent our thought processes.
:hmm: Or maybe this is all just my own halfassed numskull typology that has absolutely nothing to do with what you're talking about.
There is of course also the partisanship issue, and all the jingoism and mutual defensiveness and conflation of one issue with another that goes along with that...I hate it, but that just is politics right now, and not only in FYM. And then because religion and politics intermix so much, you get all these same dynamics pervading religion discussions, often--too often--even when the politicized approach is unwarranted and unhelpful: people wind up being expected to answer for or prove things they shouldn't have to at all, which really stings. But you know all this.
I do realize that the last couple of days have been especially disheartening at several points. I am betting that much of this is due to...factors which will likely improve with time. Which admittedly is a somewhat risky bet to make. If trends don't improve shortly I will come out of lurking about it.
If there's something else you can think of I could try out that might help--some new guidelines, a thread to discuss dissatisfactions with the current state of things, whatever--let me know.
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BTW how is the new job going? :)Posted 06-24-2006 at 07:44 PM by yolland
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I guess this has been an excellent time to find myself really unable to care about FYM-types issues, because I have no clue about the current round of bickering. Kinda nice in a way.
But I did have to laugh at you list of reasons why some hate FYM -- all those things are readily available in all corners of Interference. :wink:Posted 06-24-2006 at 11:58 PM by indra -
Yolland,
Thank you for your thoughtful comment. Let me think about some guidelines for posting. While I doubt they could be implimented as requirements, I've been through many worksessions in my prior job designed to improve communications between groups with divergent goals.
As for the new job, I don't think it could get any better. While I've been happy with jobs before, the quality of people I am working with today far surpasses what I've experienced before. The company follows six guiding principles and follow them with an unusually genuine spirit and enthusiasm. The first five principles deal with how we work with each other and how we work within the larger community. Only the last principle has anything to do with running a business.
What I find odd is that, as a successful enterprise, the company often draws criticism. Most of it deals with day-to-day operations and it is rebroadcast throughout the company as a teaching tool (what could have been done better). There is a body of criticism that is more philosophical. It is often espoused by those who think they know what they are talking about, yet the criticism has little or nothing to do with the reality of the company.
Bottom line, it is a company I proudly work for.Posted 06-26-2006 at 01:56 PM by nbcrusader - :up: That's great news.
rueful lol @ the "groups with divergent goals"Posted 06-26-2006 at 03:38 PM by yolland - I think I'll leave the mutual admiration society to their ways - maybe one day they will know the amount of negativity and hate they spew.Posted 09-13-2006 at 03:52 PM by nbcrusader
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^ well, i've just come across this, and i have to say that i'm quite disappointed, especially since your calm, reasoned conservative voice has been greatly missed and has now been taken over by several members who identify as conservative but who's posting style and general demeanor is anything but.
i really don't understand what you mean by "mutual admiration society," nor do i see the "hate" that is spewed (are we really to understand the mocking of pajamas as hate? is this remotely comparable to the words used by some to describe Islam and Muslims?) but these days it seems as if FYM has become much more of a "mutual resentment/distrust society," and i think your absence has much to do with that.
please know that you are missed.Posted 10-20-2006 at 11:24 AM by Irvine511
