equality blooms with spring - Page 10

martha · 04-09-2009, 10:26 AM

The real question is: Does he have ~~kids~~ children from his affairs?

INDY500 · 04-09-2009, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonoVoxSupastar

Tradition is something celebrated on college campuses or within families, it has absolutely no place in law and equality.

I would call precedent, or more accurately stare decisis, the legal term for "tradition."

Doesn't mean the law should never change, but like tradition, precedent provides stability, predictability and continuity. Tradition should certainly be challenged from time to time but not scoffed at or dismissed out-of-hand.

**yolland** · 04-09-2009, 02:51 PM

Seems to me that no one who scoffs at tradition or dismisses it out-of-hand would likely be looking to get married in the first place.

BVS · 04-09-2009, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by INDY500

I would call precedent, or more accurately stare decisis, the legal term for "tradition."

Doesn't mean the law should never change, but like tradition, precedent provides stability, predictability and continuity. Tradition should certainly be challenged from time to time but not scoffed at or dismissed out-of-hand.

Well I still see a big difference in the two. And just like change for change sake, tradition for tradition sake is something that should be scoffed at when it comes to the law.

Precedent provides patterns and justification, it may not always be right but it does have reason behind it.

Tradition is more ceremonial, the passing on of statements or customs.

But that being said, even if it is precedent you are speaking of, you still have failed time and time again as to why if the tradition or precedent were changed how it would effect you or society.

So I ask again, how long will it take of Iowa not imploding(or whatever it is you are scared of) for you to change your stance on this tradition?

Irvine511 · 04-09-2009, 04:52 PM

evidently, though, "tradition" flies out the window when it comes to torture.

i guess it's easier and better to facilitate hate rather than love?

nathan1977 · 04-10-2009, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonoVoxSupastar

Precedent provides patterns and justification, it may not always be right but it does have reason behind it.

You mean like legal precedent? Like Baker V. Nelson or Hernandez v. Robles (which consolidated several other legal cases as well). Or...

Quote:

But that being said, even if it is precedent you are speaking of, you still have failed time and time again as to why if the tradition or precedent were changed how it would effect you or society.

You mean things like the time-honored and Constitutionally-protected principles of freedom of speech and religion?

Faith groups losing gay rights fights - Washington Post- msnbc.com

* A Christian photographer was forced by the New Mexico Civil Rights Commission to pay $6,637 in attorney's costs after she refused to photograph a gay couple's commitment ceremony.
* A psychologist in Georgia was fired after she declined for religious reasons to counsel a lesbian about her relationship.
* Christian fertility doctors in California who refused to artificially inseminate a lesbian patient were barred by the state Supreme Court from invoking their religious beliefs in refusing treatment.
* A Christian student group was not recognized at a University of California law school because it denies membership to anyone practicing sex outside of traditional marriage.

To say nothing of Catholic adoption agencies forced to close in Boston, parents put in jail for refusing to allow their kids to learn about same-sex marriage, etc.

martha · 04-10-2009, 09:31 AM

[QUOTE=nathan1977;6079943]

You mean things like the time-honored and Constitutionally-protected principles of freedom of speech and religion?

And equal protection?

A_Wanderer · 04-10-2009, 09:34 AM

As disgustingly hateful, yes I said it because I feel that it's true, as the attitudes of your martyrs are I think that they generally have the right to practice their beliefs.

But the cases are without context, and I would potentially support some of them (for instance I would have a problem with my student union fees being given to a bigotry group).

Your freedom of religious bigotry does not extend to public services or an expectation of respect from private organisations, by all means follow your God and hate the sinning which gays commit (by virtue of being both gay and sexual) but don't expect the rest of us to push it with public funds.

I support freedom of speech and freedom of religion, part of that is that I don't want my tax dollars supporting sectarian religions which I fundamentally disagree (for that reason I find the idea of moving to the United States to be perfectly fine, I respect your secular tradition), it would be no different if I was a Jew or a Christian, I don't think the state should have any role imposing the beliefs of any particular religion on the population.

You foster a one way street where Christianity gets unique protection against non-Religious public policy, now given the plurality of faiths and non-faiths in your Country it makes practical sense for the state to give no favour to any one religion, but it seems you cant hack it, and insist on crying discrimination against Christians (by Secularists or Atheists apparently) while actually preaching discrimination, it is a revolting attitude. I may have my objections to religion but I recognise that secularism protects my unbelief as much as belief and I respect the diversity of beliefs (I don't want to ban religions, I don't want to discriminate against those I disagree with - unless they are child abusers or causing harm), you on the other hand support discrimination against homosexuals on the basis of your religious beliefs and cultural attitudes, and actively foster a discriminatory attitude but couch it in terms of tradition and morality.

Your attitude is bigoted and doesn't deserve any recognition, if you feel this dismissal is unfair then please appreciate a fraction of what it is like to have your strong feelings denied, call it reciprocity.

BVS · 04-10-2009, 09:46 AM

Quote: