dan_smee

while that may be a strict interpretation, you dont leave room for the fact the language is an organism, and is malleable; words take on new or altered meanings over time. Racism, as a functional part of the modern language is exclusively applied to the negative aspects of stereotyping physical characteristics, usually causing significant social, economic and physical disadvantage to a group of people based solely on these characteristics

2861U2

I don't like that the almost careless use of the word makes it harder for people to identify REAL racism. Too many people are quicker to call Keith Olbermann a racist than they are the KKK, and quicker to call Glenn Beck a racist than they are the New Black Panther Party. I have no problem with the word "racist" itself, but please, use it to classify someone who fits the term.

BVS

But everyone knows the extremist groups are racist, that's just a given. So these aren't fair comparisons. Do I believe it gets overused? Absolutely, but not NEARLY as much as you would like to think.

__________________
my music

Music Facebook

^Apparently he did.

MyBloodySleeve

Kieran McConville

Less important than racism itself, is how you respond to it. The same holds true for entrenched sexism. Some - I say some - of this is wound pretty deep into basic human nature. At the most basic level, a preference for the known and familiar.

Now, we see around us, and in history, racism that has manifested in everything from vicious brutality to benign neglect and apathy. None of those outcomes are fantastic and some of them are appalling. Generally, my baseline would be that they be responded to accordingly.

Sorry for the vagueness. Still and all, while it is possible to go overboard, I don't think that sneaky racism that is driven by real malice should be given a free pass just because no naughty words were used. As a foreigner, the loopier ranting against Obama's health care policy springs to mind. And the birth certificate thing. And, and, and.

anitram

Fairly or not, the reality is that in life the only thing that really matters at the end of the day is perception. I am not saying that it should, but you are largely a product of how you are perceived, and I think that people who are particularly self-aware take great care in considering how they are perceived.

You may think that Rush Limbaugh is not a racist and that he's not a sexist. The reality is that many people, perhaps even MOST people perceive him to be racist and sexist. And this is not because of dementia on their part; it is attributable directly to his words and his actions (on a repeated basis).

It is hard, maybe even impossible to know whether any given person is truly a racist on the inside. But perceptions do matter and when large numbers of people perceive a person to be racist or their thoughts to be racist, it is more worthy to examine why they think so and whether there is any truth to it than it is to be outraged by some sort of malfeasance on their part.

BVS

Great post.

I'd also like to add that I believe some of the more subtle racism can at times actually be more destructive than the overt white hood type of racism. And I think this is the complex issue we are dealing with right now in North America.

__________________
my music

Music Facebook

^Apparently he did.

MyBloodySleeve

Kieran McConville

I guess, to put it another way, it's not wise to bring a bunker-busting tank to a fist-fight. Sometimes seemingly trivial incidents can be illustrative of larger problems, but that judgement requires great caution.

When it's a case of someone committing a faux paus out of simple ignorance, you gotta tread very carefully indeed (although I've read many blog threads, including ones local to my own country, that would disagree strongly with that). Using the wrong word is not a hanging offence. Using the nice or polite word with malice to slip a knife in under the radar, well that's a different matter.

None of that has any bearing on Rush Limbaugh, of course. From what I can tell, if he is not racist, he is maybe something worse - a deeply cynical man with contempt for his listeners. His effect, from what I can tell, is wholly poisonous to American politics.

BVS

Very true, and this is a perfect example of it's "how you respond to it", like you said, that makes the difference.

If my grandmother says something, and I tell her "grandma it's really not polite to say "oriental", "negro", "queer", etc she has two choices: either apologize and find a more polite way to say it, or say damnnit I'll call them what I want to call them.

We see this in interference all the time.

__________________
my music

Music Facebook

^Apparently he did.

MyBloodySleeve

financeguy

What's wrong with oriental?

BVS

Here's a fairly good explanation:

Orient - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

__________________
my music

Music Facebook

^Apparently he did.

MyBloodySleeve

dan_smee

My grandfather thinks he is the most tolerant and socially responsible person in the world. But mention Jewish people and he rants about loan sharks and shysters in the depression. Everyone has their definition of what ok is, and where the line is.

financeguy

To an extent, I agree with you here.

There also seems to be a certain PCness about certain terms that we used around race (and I don't mean obviously racist words like n*****)

In Ireland, there are what are now called 'travelling people' or 'travellers' but what historically were called 'gypsies'.

Many years ago, certain people on the left in Ireland decreed that we must not call them 'gypsies' any more, that this was an offensive term to use, and suggested the term 'itinerant' instead.

More recently still - you've guessed it - it has been decreed that the term 'itinerant' is also offensive and should no longer be used. In fact, there is nothing offensive about the term 'itinerant' - it quite literally means someone that travels around from place to place. The sad truth is that it is a section of the 'travelling community' that make these terms offensive, by their 'lifestyle' of robbing, criminality and in some cases murder.

It seems that terms like 'black' must not be used, that black people must be called 'African Americans', but of course there are black people that are neither African or American, so go figure.

I have heard it suggested, apparently seriously, that the term 'Jew' is in itself offensive. Well, it may be, depending on context and the person using it - but not always.

BVS

Yeah, my grandmother used to live in a neighborhood that was 99% African American, some of her best friends were black, went to a church that was 50-50 but when she would talk about segregation she talked about it almost as if she never saw the problem with it. Not that she wished it still existed there's was just never any sense of unjust in her voice when she spoke about it. It was very odd to me as a child.

__________________
my music

Music Facebook

^Apparently he did.

MyBloodySleeve

financeguy

Frankly there's an element of liberal dogoodery in that article.

Isn't it the case that the term 'coloured' was originally used by black people themselves as a non-offensive, almost celebratory response to words like n*****?

BVS

I hate rants against "PC ness", because so many of them come off as an unwillingness to grow. Many of them sound like the cranky old white man that would just prefer the days of when he could slap a girl on her ass and call her a 'broad'.

That being said, I also think this too can get out of hand. But it's a matter of empathy to me. I honestly don't think most black people mind being called black, but it's slightly different when you call them "a black" or describe something as "black".

__________________
my music

Music Facebook

^Apparently he did.

MyBloodySleeve