Racism - Page 3

BVS · 10-21-2009, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by financeguy

Frankly there's an element of liberal dogoodery in that article.

Isn't it the case that the term 'coloured' was originally used by black people themselves as a non-offensive, almost celebratory response to words like n*****?

I've seen discrepencies about the origins of the word, but just ask yourself, would you like to be described as "coloured"? The term doesn't make sense.

maycocksean · 10-21-2009, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kieran McConville

None of that has any bearing on Rush Limbaugh, of course. From what I can tell, if he is not racist, he is maybe something worse - a deeply cynical man with contempt for his listeners. His effect, from what I can tell, is wholly poisonous to American politics.

I think you've summed my views on this man far more succinctly than I ever could have.

I actually tend to suspect the deeply cynical one is perhaps more likely.

He's pretty talented really. . .he's managed to get so close to the line, and yet keep so many Americans convinced that he hasn't actually crossed it. So many people feel he's just, you know, telling the truth--telling it like it is. Perhaps what's really scary is that so many otherwise decent people find that what he has to say resonates with them.

financeguy · 10-21-2009, 08:42 PM

I personally think this Glenn Beck guy is a lot more worriesome. He strikes me as a complete out and out demagogue, or demagogue wannabe.

As regards O'Reilly and Limbaugh, they have some views that aren't so bad and some views that I wouldn't agree with. Frankly, as regards O'Reilly's take on crime and sympathising with the victims rather than the offenders, I pretty much agree with it.

O'Reilly is very 'Irish' in his thinking process (i.e., when debating, attack first, ask questions later), of course, so I might be biased in his favour.

UberBeaver · 10-22-2009, 07:46 AM

Racism is ignorance and/or self-loathing projected on another that is easily identified by some sociological difference.

The Sad Punk · 10-22-2009, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BVS

Many of them sound like the cranky old white man that would just prefer the days of when he could slap a girl on her ass and call her a 'broad'.

Oh jeez, I still say "broad" all the time. Am I allowed?

elevated_u2_fan · 10-22-2009, 08:43 AM

you're a broad, so it's ok doll...

Sue DeNym · 10-22-2009, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kieran McConville

Still and all, while it is possible to go overboard, I don't think that sneaky racism that is driven by real malice should be given a free pass just because no naughty words were used. As a foreigner, the loopier ranting against Obama's health care policy springs to mind. And the birth certificate thing. And, and, and.

Excellent post, Kieran. I especially agree with this part.

I don't believe that all opposition to Obama is racist; some of it is Republican vs Democrat, some of is is just not agreeing with his policies. But an awful lot of the attacks on him are racist. I've seen pictures of his head photoshopped onto a shaman's body, or the First Couple photoshopped into pimp and prostitute costumes (the person who e-mailed that to me genuinely thought they actually showed up at an important meeting dressed like that!

) Sorry, those are not politically motivated; that is obviously racist "humor", even if the N-word isn't actually used.

Irvine511 · 10-22-2009, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by financeguy

Frankly there's an element of liberal dogoodery in that article.

Isn't it the case that the term 'coloured' was originally used by black people themselves as a non-offensive, almost celebratory response to words like n*****?

it's times like this when i realize just how new most Europeans are to multiculturalism.

here's a fascinating post by Sullivan that's sort of on this subject, though it's more to do with nativism, but yet that's also racism:

Quote:

Whose Country?

One does not quite know what to say about Pat Buchanan's latest. Is it too predictable to note? Or too ugly to record? Or too stupid to ignore? Upon reflection, I'll go with stupid. Take one simple point. Notice that for Buchanan in this column, it is axiomatic that America was once defined by its whiteness. This is what he means by "tradition." America - once uniformly white - is now, for him and those he speaks for, bewilderingly multicultural and multi-confessional. Hence the anxiety. Hence the panic. Hence, in some ways, the confluence of fear and paranoia among the 20 percent of Americans who seem to feel this way and see the federal government in some way as the enabler of this destruction.

But this axiom, while useful as a myth, has a problem. It is untrue. And this "country" that white Americans are allegedly losing is not, in fact, a country. It is merely a self-serving and solipsistic illusion of a country that some white Americans feel they are losing.

From its very beginning, after all, America was a profoundly black country as well.

This took a while for an Englishman to grasp upon arriving here, because it's so easy to carry with you all the subconscious cultural baggage you grew up with. England, after all, is deeply Anglo-Saxon. It makes some sense to refer to England's roots and ethnic identity as white, its language as English, its inheritance as a deep mixture of Northern European peoples - the Angles and the Saxons and the Normans and the Celts. And superficially, English-speaking white Americans might seem in the same cultural boat as white English people, dealing with a relatively new multiculturalism in an increasingly diverse and multi-racial society. And at first blush, you almost sink into that lazy and stupid assumption, especially if you arrive in Boston, as I did, and carried all the usual European prejudices, as I did.

The English, lulled by their marination in American pop culture from infancy, and beguiled by the same language, can live out their days in this country never actually noting that it is an alien land - stranger than you might have ever imagined, crueler than you realized, but somehow also more inspiring than you ever thought possible. This is the America I am trying to make my home, after 25 years. It is not the America of Pat Buchanan's or John Derbyshire's fantasies.

It struck me almost at once, if only in the music I heard all around me - and then in so many other linguistic, cultural, rhetorical, spiritual ways: white Americans do not realize how black they are. Even their whiteness is partly scavenged from the fear of - and attraction to - its opposite. Even something as stereotypically white as American Catholicism, I discovered to my amazement, was also black from the very start. (Yes, those Maryland slaves. If you've never been to a Gospel Mass in an ancient black Catholic parish, try it some time.)

From the beginning, in its very marrow, this country was forged out of that racial and cultural interaction. It fought a brutalizing, bloody, defining civil war over that interaction. Any European student of Tocqueville swiftly opens his eyes at the three races that defined America in the classic text. Has Buchanan read Tocqueville? And that's why it seems so odd to me that the election of the son of a white mother and a black father is seen as somehow a threat to American identity for some, when, in fact, Obama is the final iteration of the American identity - the oldest one and the deepest one. This newness is, in fact, ancient - or as ancient as America can be. The very names - Ann Dunham and Barack Obama. Is not their union in some ways a faint echo of the union that actually made this country what it is?
That some cannot see Buchanan's cartoon as a travesty of history remains America's tragedy of self-forgetting.

It reminds me of the way in which Britain always defined itself as a Protestant country, even while, of course, it was deeply, deeply Catholic before it was ever Protestant - and for a much longer period of time. As a Catholic growing up in England, and having genealogical roots in both Catholic Ireland and in Domesday Book England, it took a while for me to appreciate the pied beauty of this identity. Tribalism is a powerful thing, especially for the Irish. I remember one day, as I was herded into the local Anglican church for my high school assembly, thinking: "This ancient building was once mine, ours." But that was before I realized that Anglicanism itself could not be understood without the profound inheritance of English Catholicism - and that Anglicanism was actually a hybrid of Protestant and Catholic Englishness. And that this was England - all of it. And to be truly English was to own it all.

Buchanan, of all people, should know better than these tedious recurring explosions of racial panic. And, of course, he does know better. He has read more history than most pundits. He is personally a civil and decent man. But he feels these things in such a profound and tribal way that what he knows is submerged by tribal fear and expressed as hateful hackery. But this much is true and deserves restating:

Black Americans have shed blood in every American war since the Revolution. This country, even the very Capitol building in which today's legislators now demand to see the birth certificate of the first black president, was built on the sweat and sinew of slaves. Before we were people in the eyes of the law, before we had the right to vote, before we had a black president, we were here, helping make this country as it is today. We are as American as it gets. And frankly, the time of people who think otherwise is passing. If that's the country Buchanan wants to hold onto, well, he's right, he is losing it.

And about time too.

Buchanan's article is here, and it's well worth a read.

Quote:

Traditional Americans are losing their nation
Posted: October 20, 2009
1:00 am Eastern

In the brief age of Obama, we have had "truthers," "birthers," tea party activists and town-hall dissenters.

Comes now, the "Oath Keepers." And who might they be?

Writes Alan Maimon in the Las Vegas Review-Journal, Oath Keepers, depending on where one stands, are "either strident defenders of liberty or dangerous peddlers of paranoia."

Formed in March, they are ex-military and police who repledge themselves to defend the Constitution, even if it means disobeying orders. If the U.S. government ordered law enforcement agencies to violate Second Amendment rights by disarming the people, Oath Keepers will not obey.

"The whole point of Oath Keepers is to stop a dictatorship from ever happening here," says founding father Stewart Rhodes, an ex-Army paratrooper and Yale-trained lawyer. "My focus is on the guys with the guns, because they can't do it without them.

"We say if the American people decide it's time for a revolution, we'll fight with you."

Prediction: Brother Rhodes is headed for cable stardom.

And if the Pelosi-Reid progressives went postal over town-hall protesters, calling them "un-American," "Nazis" and "evil-mongers," one can imagine what they will do with the Oath Keepers.

As with Jimmy Carter's long-range psychoanalysis of Joe Wilson, the reflexive reaction of the mainstream media will likely be that these are militia types, driven to irrationality because America has a black president.

Yet, the establishment's reaction seems more problematic for the republic than anything the Oath Keepers are up to. For our political and media elite seem to have lost touch with the nation and to be wedded to a vision of America divorced from reality.

Progressives are the folks who, in the 1960s, could easily understand that urban riots that took scores of lives and destroyed billions in property were an inevitable reaction to racism, poverty and despair. They could empathize with the rage of campus radicals who burned down the ROTC building and bombed the Pentagon.

The "dirty, immoral war in Vietnam" explains why the "finest generation we have ever produced" is behaving like this, they said. We must deal with the "root causes" of social disorder.

Yet, they cannot comprehend what would motivate Middle America to distrust its government, for it surely does, as Ron Brownstein reports in the National Journal:

"Whites are not only more anxious, but also more alienated. Big majorities of whites say the past year's turmoil has diminished their confidence in government, corporations and the financial industry. ... Asked which institution they trust most to make economic decisions in their interest, a plurality of whites older than 30 pick 'none' – a grim statement."

Is all this due to Obama's race?

Even Obama laughs at that. As he told David Letterman, I was already black by the time I was elected. And he not only got a higher share of the white vote than Kerry or Gore, a third of white voters, who said in August 2008 that race was an important consideration in voting, said they were going to vote for Obama.

With black voters going 24 to 1 for Obama, he almost surely won more votes than he lost because of his race.

Moreover, the alienation and radicalization of white America began long before Obama arrived. He acknowledged as much when he explained Middle Pennsylvanians to puzzled progressives in that closed-door meeting in San Francisco.

Referring to the white working-class voters in the industrial towns decimated by job losses, Obama said: "They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

Yet, we had seen these folks before. They were Perotistas in 1992, opposed NAFTA in 1993 and blocked the Bush-Kennedy McCain amnesty in 2007.

In their lifetimes, they have seen their Christian faith purged from schools their taxes paid for, and mocked in movies and on TV. They have seen their factories shuttered in the thousands and their jobs outsourced in the millions to Mexico and China. They have seen trillions of tax dollars go for Great Society programs, but have seen no Great Society, only rising crime, illegitimacy, drug use and dropout rates.

They watch on cable TV as illegal aliens walk into their country, are rewarded with free educations and health care and take jobs at lower pay than American families can live on – then carry Mexican flags in American cities and demand U.S. citizenship.

They see Wall Street banks bailed out as they sweat their next paycheck, then read that bank profits are soaring, and the big bonuses for the brilliant bankers are back. Neither they nor their kids ever benefited from affirmative action, unlike Barack and Michelle Obama.

They see a government in Washington that cannot balance its books, win our wars or protect our borders. The government shovels out trillions to Fortune 500 corporations and banks to rescue the country from a crisis created by the government and Fortune 500 corporations and banks.

America was once their country. They sense they are losing it. And they are right.

BVS · 10-22-2009, 01:56 PM

Pat's a scary man...

TheShootist · 10-22-2009, 04:02 PM

I am a WASP, who grew up in the America’s southern states, and I am old enough to remember when a black man could not use the same drinking fountain or restroom as me. That is true racism. The cry of racism today is just a shield that inner city, phony, elitist, snobs use to hide behind, in order to avoid exposing their true pathetic character.

Irvine511 · 10-22-2009, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheShootist

I am a WASP, who grew up in the America’s southern states, and I am old enough to remember when a black man could not use the same drinking fountain or restroom as me. That is true racism. The cry of racism today is just a shield that inner city, phony, elitist, snobs use to hide behind, in order to avoid exposing their true pathetic character.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irvine511

it's a terrible thing that black people and all minorities accuse white people of when black people and all minorities and their guilty white liberal enablers don't get their way.

the accusation of it is far, far worse than the actual thing itself, but the worst thing of all is reverse racism.

you see?

BVS · 10-22-2009, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheShootist

I am a WASP, who grew up in the America’s southern states, and I am old enough to remember when a black man could not use the same drinking fountain or restroom as me. That is true racism. The cry of racism today is just a shield that inner city, phony, elitist, snobs use to hide behind, in order to avoid exposing their true pathetic character.

True insight

I think changing the font and size really helps your argument.

gman · 10-23-2009, 12:26 PM

My tuppence worth is..it seems to be one way traffic...a few weeks ago.....the MOBO (Music of Black Origin) Awards were on TV. And it struck me, Could you imagine the outcry had it been The MOWO awards?
And , in the US....i believe you have Black only Colleges amongst many other such things. Why?

I think its all to easy now, for individuals to use the Discrimination/ racism card, should they not get their own way. And there is no shortage of goody goodys prepared to listen to them.

BVS · 10-23-2009, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gman

And , in the US....i believe you have Black only Colleges amongst many other such things. Why?

Do you realize the disproportionate figures for college acceptance between white and black? Why do you think that is? Are black kids just naturally not as smart as white kids or are they just naturally lazier?

And to clarify they are not black ONLY colleges.

Irvine511 · 10-23-2009, 01:11 PM

black colleges have their roots in pre-Civil Rights America where black student had no other option in the South but to attend a black university.

further, we have many female-only colleges and universities. and we have male-only colleges. these are private institutions and since they receive no federal money they can do as they please.

10-23-2009, 01:11 PM	#45
Irvine511 Blue Crack Addict Premium Gold Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 20,966 Local Time: 07:49 AM	black colleges have their roots in pre-Civil Rights America where black student had no other option in the South but to attend a black university. further, we have many female-only colleges and universities. and we have male-only colleges. these are private institutions and since they receive no federal money they can do as they please. __________________ THE WORLD ONLY SPINS FORWARD

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10-21-2009, 08:42 PM	#33
financeguy Rock n' Roll Doggie FOB Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ireland Posts: 8,293 Local Time: 11:49 AM	I personally think this Glenn Beck guy is a lot more worriesome. He strikes me as a complete out and out demagogue, or demagogue wannabe. As regards O'Reilly and Limbaugh, they have some views that aren't so bad and some views that I wouldn't agree with. Frankly, as regards O'Reilly's take on crime and sympathising with the victims rather than the offenders, I pretty much agree with it. O'Reilly is very 'Irish' in his thinking process (i.e., when debating, attack first, ask questions later), of course, so I might be biased in his favour.

10-22-2009, 07:46 AM	#34
UberBeaver Breakdancing Soul Pilgrim Premium Gold Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: the most serious...douch hammer ever Posts: 19,579 Local Time: 07:49 AM	Racism is ignorance and/or self-loathing projected on another that is easily identified by some sociological difference.

10-22-2009, 04:02 PM	#40
TheShootist The Fly Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 31 Local Time: 03:49 AM	I am a WASP, who grew up in the America’s southern states, and I am old enough to remember when a black man could not use the same drinking fountain or restroom as me. That is true racism. The cry of racism today is just a shield that inner city, phony, elitist, snobs use to hide behind, in order to avoid exposing their true pathetic character.

10-23-2009, 12:26 PM	#43
gman Refugee Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Highlands of Scotland Posts: 2,260 Local Time: 11:49 AM	My tuppence worth is..it seems to be one way traffic...a few weeks ago.....the MOBO (Music of Black Origin) Awards were on TV. And it struck me, Could you imagine the outcry had it been The MOWO awards? And , in the US....i believe you have Black only Colleges amongst many other such things. Why? I think its all to easy now, for individuals to use the Discrimination/ racism card, should they not get their own way. And there is no shortage of goody goodys prepared to listen to them.