Varitek

Wow weird bump. I don't remember writing all that stuff...then I realized it wasn't even a thread from this summer but last summer.

Vincent Vega

Leaves the impression he really got banned for his political opinions. However, reason for the banning was his language. Cursing and insulting posts didn't help much.

And it wasn't in response to posts like this:
where it would have been somewhat understandable.

JOFO

Oh please.

Diemen

Let's not drag up arguments from over a year ago with people who are no longer a part of the forum, k?

And Jofo, asking a poster to answer for their "outright stupidity" is out of line.

__________________
diemen@interference.com

JOFO

Ok sorry.

Headache in a Suitcase

if in 10 to 20+ years iraq is a stable, thriving, growing democracy, then the legacy of george bush will look significantly better than it does today.

as with most presidents, you can't really judge what they did at the time they did it... in the "want it now" society that americans live in that can be tough to take.

it doesn't look good now, but bush's legacy is not yet a closed book.

deep

there is a chance

that after Obama gets done

W will be looking better.

JOFO

Well, there's also a chance that you'll soon see a three legged ballerina onstage at the Met.


Dig?

MrsSpringsteen

Wall Street Journal

Opinion Nov 5th 2008

The Treatment of Bush Has Been a Disgrace
What must our enemies be thinking?
By JEFFREY SCOTT SHAPIRO

Earlier this year, 12,000 people in San Francisco signed a petition in support of a proposition on a local ballot to rename an Oceanside sewage plant after George W. Bush. The proposition is only one example of the classless disrespect many Americans have shown the president.

According to recent Gallup polls, the president's average approval rating is below 30% -- down from his 90% approval in the wake of 9/11. Mr. Bush has endured relentless attacks from the left while facing abandonment from the right.

This is the price Mr. Bush is paying for trying to work with both Democrats and Republicans. During his 2004 victory speech, the president reached out to voters who supported his opponent, John Kerry, and said, "Today, I want to speak to every person who voted for my opponent. To make this nation stronger and better, I will need your support, and I will work to earn it. I will do all I can do to deserve your trust."

Those bipartisan efforts have been met with crushing resistance from both political parties.

The president's original Supreme Court choice of Harriet Miers alarmed Republicans, while his final nomination of Samuel Alito angered Democrats. His solutions to reform the immigration system alienated traditional conservatives, while his refusal to retreat in Iraq has enraged liberals who have unrealistic expectations about the challenges we face there.

It seems that no matter what Mr. Bush does, he is blamed for everything. He remains despised by the left while continuously disappointing the right.

Yet it should seem obvious that many of our country's current problems either existed long before Mr. Bush ever came to office, or are beyond his control. Perhaps if Americans stopped being so divisive, and congressional leaders came together to work with the president on some of these problems, he would actually have had a fighting chance of solving them.

Like the president said in his 2004 victory speech, "We have one country, one Constitution and one future that binds us. And when we come together and work together, there is no limit to the greatness of America."

To be sure, Mr. Bush is not completely alone. His low approval ratings put him in the good company of former Democratic President Harry S. Truman, whose own approval rating sank to 22% shortly before he left office. Despite Mr. Truman's low numbers, a 2005 Wall Street Journal poll found that he was ranked the seventh most popular president in history.

Just as Americans have gained perspective on how challenging Truman's presidency was in the wake of World War II, our country will recognize the hardship President Bush faced these past eight years -- and how extraordinary it was that he accomplished what he did in the wake of the September 11 attacks.

The treatment President Bush has received from this country is nothing less than a disgrace. The attacks launched against him have been cruel and slanderous, proving to the world what little character and resolve we have. The president is not to blame for all these problems. He never lost faith in America or her people, and has tried his hardest to continue leading our nation during a very difficult time.

Our failure to stand by the one person who continued to stand by us has not gone unnoticed by our enemies. It has shown to the world how disloyal we can be when our president needed loyalty -- a shameful display of arrogance and weakness that will haunt this nation long after Mr. Bush has left the White House.

Mr. Shapiro is an investigative reporter and lawyer who previously interned with John F. Kerry's legal team during the presidential election in 2004.

Strongbow

Yet, we still have many liberals apart of the forum who at times have been a perfect fit for that catagory.

Bono's shades

Wow. I had no idea trying to strip us of our civil liberties at every turn was how a president shows willingness to "stand by us." I guess that's why I'm not writing for the Wall Street Journal.

And does this Shapiro guy ever talk to anyone living outside the USA ever? Or read any foreign newspapers? If he thinks Americans don't respect Bush, he'd have a heart attack if he knew what the rest of the world thinks of him.

ImOuttaControl

I don't understand this, so could you please explain how, specifically and personally, your civil liberties have been stripped in the last 8 years?

2nd part, I was in Europe for a few weeks this summer talked politics with plenty of italians, greeks, and turks(all awesome people!)....Criticisms of Bush honestly didn't seem that different from what I hear from the left here in the States...Actually the most radical person i encountered in Italy was my sister who is on the far left...she was telling the owner of our hotel that our country is fascist and Bush is like Hitler(which it was embarrasing to hear my sister say this to a resident of a country that was ravaged by fasicsm in the 30's and 40's) ..but of course this is only my individual experience and I have no doubt that Bush is despised in many places abroad.

BVS

Why does it have to be personal?

Do you not understand that rights were taken away?


"When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I was not a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out."

Pastor Martin Niemöller

__________________
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Music Facebook

^Apparently he did.

MyBloodySleeve

ImOuttaControl

Good Point, it doesn't have to be personal.

I've just honestly never heard examples of how our rights have been taken away...there have been wrongful investigations and interrogations, just like there have always been wrongful arrests, punishments, and executions.

Vincent Vega

Old Europe isn't particularly happy with Bush's policies, indeed. But I hate those comparisons with Hitler as well.
Being way more liberal in general, Bush didn't have an easy stand in most eyes. And he made sure to get despised with the arrogance he and his administration showed when a few of us decided not to join him in the Iraq war.