Bono: Grace over Karma

AEON · 06-28-2006, 03:34 PM

I know this was probably posted in here before – but I could not find it. My wife bought this book for me on Christmas and I absolutely love it!

I came across some excepts on a website and I was reminded why I love the book so much. I was just wondering what some of your thoughts were…

Quote:

Bono: Grace over Karma
book excerpt
posted 08/08/05

Bono: … It's a mind-blowing concept that the God who created the universe might be looking for company, a real relationship with people, but the thing that keeps me on my knees is the difference between Grace and Karma.

Assayas: I haven't heard you talk about that.

Bono: I really believe we've moved out of the realm of Karma into one of Grace.

Assayas: Well, that doesn't make it clearer for me.

Bono: You see, at the center of all religions is the idea of Karma. You know, what you put out comes back to you: an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, or in physics—in physical laws—every action is met by an equal or an opposite one. It's clear to me that Karma is at the very heart of the universe. I'm absolutely sure of it. And yet, along comes this idea called Grace to upend all that "as you reap, so you will sow" stuff. Grace defies reason and logic. Love interrupts, if you like, the consequences of your actions, which in my case is very good news indeed, because I've done a lot of stupid stuff.

Assayas: I'd be interested to hear that.

Bono: That's between me and God. But I'd be in big trouble if Karma was going to finally be my judge. I'd be in deep s---. It doesn't excuse my mistakes, but I'm holding out for Grace. I'm holding out that Jesus took my sins onto the Cross, because I know who I am, and I hope I don't have to depend on my own religiosity.

Assayas: The Son of God who takes away the sins of the world. I wish I could believe in that.

Bono: But I love the idea of the Sacrificial Lamb. I love the idea that God says: Look, you cretins, there are certain results to the way we are, to selfishness, and there's a mortality as part of your very sinful nature, and, let's face it, you're not living a very good life, are you? There are consequences to actions. The point of the death of Christ is that Christ took on the sins of the world, so that what we put out did not come back to us, and that our sinful nature does not reap the obvious death. That's the point. It should keep us humbled… . It's not our own good works that get us through the gates of heaven.

Assayas: That's a great idea, no denying it. Such great hope is wonderful, even though it's close to lunacy, in my view. Christ has his rank among the world's great thinkers. But Son of God, isn't that farfetched?

Bono: No, it's not farfetched to me. Look, the secular response to the Christ story always goes like this: he was a great prophet, obviously a very interesting guy, had a lot to say along the lines of other great prophets, be they Elijah, Muhammad, Buddha, or Confucius. But actually Christ doesn't allow you that. He doesn't let you off that hook. Christ says: No. I'm not saying I'm a teacher, don't call me teacher. I'm not saying I'm a prophet. I'm saying: "I'm the Messiah." I'm saying: "I am God incarnate." And people say: No, no, please, just be a prophet. A prophet, we can take. You're a bit eccentric. We've had John the Baptist eating locusts and wild honey, we can handle that. But don't mention the "M" word! Because, you know, we're gonna have to crucify you. And he goes: No, no. I know you're expecting me to come back with an army, and set you free from these creeps, but actually I am the Messiah. At this point, everyone starts staring at their shoes, and says: Oh, my God, he's gonna keep saying this. So what you're left with is: either Christ was who He said He was—the Messiah—or a complete nutcase. I mean, we're talking nutcase on the level of Charles Manson. This man was like some of the people we've been talking about earlier. This man was strapping himself to a bomb, and had "King of the Jews" on his head, and, as they were putting him up on the Cross, was going: OK, martyrdom, here we go. Bring on the pain! I can take it. I'm not joking here. The idea that the entire course of civilization for over half of the globe could have its fate changed and turned upside-down by a nutcase, for me, that's farfetched …

Judah · 06-28-2006, 05:50 PM

"The idea that the entire course of civilization for over half of the globe could have its fate changed and turned upside-down by a nutcase, for me, that's farfetched …"

Hey, happens all the time. Happened with Muhammad, didn't it?

[Ok, ok, just kidding! Geez.]

Love the point about grace vs karma (though it seems even more far fetched than the idea of a Messiah -- one human-centric, bearing-on-metaphysical concept trumping another).

Just shows that Bono is not just some Bible-thumping guy. He feels deeply about spirituality and doesn't sit on the fence. And so damn articulate and entertaining and engaging.

BonoVoxSupastar · 06-28-2006, 05:52 PM

I believe there was a discussion about this in Goal is Soul.

verte76 · 06-28-2006, 06:00 PM

Interesting.

Carek1230 · 06-28-2006, 06:12 PM

It was a very insightful interesting intriguing book. Mischka did an excellent job interviewing Bono and putting their time spent together into written format.

AEON · 06-28-2006, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Judah

Just shows that Bono is not just some Bible-thumping guy. He feels deeply about spirituality and doesn't sit on the fence. And so damn articulate and entertaining and engaging.

I admit, I do in all good spirit admire Bono's ability to speak what he considers Truth-while at the same time remain “entertaining and engaging" as you so accurately described. And in so many ways, he is becoming the modern “face” of Christianity. I do not mean as a replacement of Christ – I mean as a replacement of past Christian cultural icons (Billy Graham, MLK, Mother Theresa…etc). And for the most part, I think this is a good thing as long as people don’t push it too far. Meaning, I hope that people don’t fixate on Bono and eagerly wait for him to “slip up” or “contradict himself” - and thus throw out everything that he has to offer the world.

AEON · 06-28-2006, 06:32 PM

Quote:

...And people say: No, no, please, just be a prophet. A prophet, we can take. You're a bit eccentric. We've had John the Baptist eating locusts and wild honey, we can handle that. But don't mention the "M" word! Because, you know, we're gonna have to crucify you

This is probably the most quotable portion of the excerpt. Bono is definitely the Christian I would most like to have a beer and long chat with.

Liesje · 06-28-2006, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Judah

Just shows that Bono is not just some Bible-thumping guy. He feels deeply about spirituality and doesn't sit on the fence. And so damn articulate and entertaining and engaging.

There are some specific points of theology where I find disagreement with the excerpt Aeon posted, but I really REALLY like the part where Bono says Jesus was either right, or a total whackjob nutcase. There is no in between. Why build a faith around someone that was just a really good leader and instigator of social change? I like the all or nothing baby attitude and I love hearing it from Bono because he is often so ambiguous about his faith (even in this excerpt).

nbcrusader · 06-30-2006, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic

There are some specific points of theology where I find disagreement with the excerpt Aeon posted, but I really REALLY like the part where Bono says Jesus was either right, or a total whackjob nutcase. There is no in between. Why build a faith around someone that was just a really good leader and instigator of social change? I like the all or nothing baby attitude and I love hearing it from Bono because he is often so ambiguous about his faith (even in this excerpt).

and "bible thumpers" can fit this description as well.

SunBloc · 07-20-2006, 11:34 AM

Interesting book. I'm just reading it now - Can't hardly put it down.

U2isthebest · 08-28-2006, 01:29 PM

I agree!! Bono always puts things in a way that makes it easy for people that are not Christians to understand. I am so sick of the way many in the Christian community treat him and the other members of U2. I know someone who got shook up because he used the word "karma" in that interview

because "it's a Hindu word" I almost wanted to slap 'em on across the face (yes I asked Jesus to forgive me), he's trying to witness to a non-believer in a way that he would understand. Too many believers look at "what" a person is saying instead of the message behind it. That shows the "religious" nature more than anything. God Bless All!!

"What you got they can't deny it, can't sell it or buy it."-Walk On

U2isthebest · 08-28-2006, 03:36 PM

Here's a later part from that same section of the interview:

"Bono later says it all comes down to how we regard Jesus:

Bono: … ' [i]f only we could be a bit more like Him, the world would be transformed. …When I look at the Cross of Christ, what I see up there is all my s--- and everybody else's. So I ask myself a question a lot of people have asked: Who is this man? And was He who He said He was, or was He just a religious nut? AND NO ONE CAN TALK YOU INTO IT OR OUT OF IT.' " (emphasis mine)

On numerous blogs and articles I've read on other websites about this interview, many Christians get all worked up that Bono doesn't state that people who don't accept Jesus will go to hell. I actually have heard some argue that he is saying salvation is not necessary because they feel he appears as though he is saying that when Jesus died, everyone was forgiven and there is no need for salvationNever mind all the times, including the one just a few weeks ago where Bono has stated that salvation IS necessary. At Bill Hybel's conference a few weeks ago, Bono stated and I quote "Next to personal redemption and salvation the main thrust of the Scriptures is to meet Christ in working with the poor." I don't really see how much clearer he can make his beliefs. He said nearly the exact same thing last year to the L.A. times,where he clearly mentioned "personal redemption" must come first. Anyway, I believe even in this interview, he makes it clear w/o coming out and saying "You're going to hell if you don't get saved" which tried by yours truly in the past is NOT the way to bring people to Jesus. Read the part I capatilized especially, but the whole quote is important. What is he saying? You have to decide for yourself whether or not you believe Jesus is the Savior of the World ("So I ask myself a question a lot of people have asked: Who is this man? And was He who He said He was, or was He just a religious nut.") What is Bono stating salvation is not something assured to everyone. You must decide if you believe in Jesus as the Savior. If you don't then one cannot have the salvation The Bible mentions. He furthers this w/the next part of his statement: ("AND NO ONE CAN TALK YOU INTO IT OR OUT OF IT. " ) He is saying salvation is a decision. No person, not even God will force salvation on an individual. They will feel a leading of the Holy Spirit, but they may choose to ignore it if they choose. What does The Bible say about those who choose to ignore the Gift of Salvation? It says they will spend eternity apart from God in Hell. What is Bono saying here? The same thing: We don't always have to fire Scripture about repentance like a spiritual machine gun in order to witness. It is much more effective in this way to lead people to Christ without sounding accusatory and judgemental. I just wanted your thoughts because it's from the same interview! God Bless You All!!

80sU2isBest · 08-29-2006, 12:22 AM

I agree with every word Bono wrote. Kudos!

JCOSTER · 08-29-2006, 12:33 AM

"Grace" from ATYCLB sums up what he says quite nicely.

06-28-2006, 05:50 PM	#2
Judah War Child Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Posts: 741 Local Time: 12:31 AM	"The idea that the entire course of civilization for over half of the globe could have its fate changed and turned upside-down by a nutcase, for me, that's farfetched …" Hey, happens all the time. Happened with Muhammad, didn't it? [Ok, ok, just kidding! Geez.] Love the point about grace vs karma (though it seems even more far fetched than the idea of a Messiah -- one human-centric, bearing-on-metaphysical concept trumping another). Just shows that Bono is not just some Bible-thumping guy. He feels deeply about spirituality and doesn't sit on the fence. And so damn articulate and entertaining and engaging. Last edited by Judah; 06-28-2006 at 05:52 PM..

06-28-2006, 05:52 PM	#3
BonoVoxSupastar Blue Crack Addict Premium Silver Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: between my head and heart Posts: 20,565 Local Time: 06:31 PM	I believe there was a discussion about this in Goal is Soul. __________________ my music Why is it that the one's with the most closed minds have the most opened mouths?

06-28-2006, 06:00 PM	#4
verte76 Yes We Can! Premium Gold Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: hoping for changes Posts: 23,333 Local Time: 12:31 AM	Interesting. __________________ I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged not by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. -Martin Luther King

06-28-2006, 06:12 PM	#5
Carek1230 Playing Grandma with Noah Premium Gold Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The best vitamin for making friends...B1 Posts: 50,618 Local Time: 04:31 PM	It was a very insightful interesting intriguing book. Mischka did an excellent job interviewing Bono and putting their time spent together into written format. __________________

08-29-2006, 12:33 AM	#14
JCOSTER Get On Your Boots!!! Premium Gold Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Upon a rock. Posts: 13,124 Local Time: 07:31 PM	"Grace" from ATYCLB sums up what he says quite nicely. __________________ Catching your bright blue eyes in the freeze frame I've seen them so many times I feel like I must be your best friend

07-20-2006, 11:34 AM	#10
SunBloc Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Bus 42 Mount Temple Posts: 6,174 Local Time: 07:31 PM	Interesting book. I'm just reading it now - Can't hardly put it down.

08-28-2006, 01:29 PM	#11
U2isthebest Aurora Rain Premium Gold Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: A Storm In Heaven... Posts: 10,247 Local Time: 07:31 PM	I agree!! Bono always puts things in a way that makes it easy for people that are not Christians to understand. I am so sick of the way many in the Christian community treat him and the other members of U2. I know someone who got shook up because he used the word "karma" in that interview because "it's a Hindu word" I almost wanted to slap 'em on across the face (yes I asked Jesus to forgive me), he's trying to witness to a non-believer in a way that he would understand. Too many believers look at "what" a person is saying instead of the message behind it. That shows the "religious" nature more than anything. God Bless All!! "What you got they can't deny it, can't sell it or buy it."-Walk On

08-28-2006, 03:36 PM	#12
U2isthebest Aurora Rain Premium Gold Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: A Storm In Heaven... Posts: 10,247 Local Time: 07:31 PM	Here's a later part from that same section of the interview: "Bono later says it all comes down to how we regard Jesus: Bono: … ' [i]f only we could be a bit more like Him, the world would be transformed. …When I look at the Cross of Christ, what I see up there is all my s--- and everybody else's. So I ask myself a question a lot of people have asked: Who is this man? And was He who He said He was, or was He just a religious nut? AND NO ONE CAN TALK YOU INTO IT OR OUT OF IT.' " (emphasis mine) On numerous blogs and articles I've read on other websites about this interview, many Christians get all worked up that Bono doesn't state that people who don't accept Jesus will go to hell. I actually have heard some argue that he is saying salvation is not necessary because they feel he appears as though he is saying that when Jesus died, everyone was forgiven and there is no need for salvationNever mind all the times, including the one just a few weeks ago where Bono has stated that salvation IS necessary. At Bill Hybel's conference a few weeks ago, Bono stated and I quote "Next to personal redemption and salvation the main thrust of the Scriptures is to meet Christ in working with the poor." I don't really see how much clearer he can make his beliefs. He said nearly the exact same thing last year to the L.A. times,where he clearly mentioned "personal redemption" must come first. Anyway, I believe even in this interview, he makes it clear w/o coming out and saying "You're going to hell if you don't get saved" which tried by yours truly in the past is NOT the way to bring people to Jesus. Read the part I capatilized especially, but the whole quote is important. What is he saying? You have to decide for yourself whether or not you believe Jesus is the Savior of the World ("So I ask myself a question a lot of people have asked: Who is this man? And was He who He said He was, or was He just a religious nut.") What is Bono stating salvation is not something assured to everyone. You must decide if you believe in Jesus as the Savior. If you don't then one cannot have the salvation The Bible mentions. He furthers this w/the next part of his statement: ("AND NO ONE CAN TALK YOU INTO IT OR OUT OF IT. " ) He is saying salvation is a decision. No person, not even God will force salvation on an individual. They will feel a leading of the Holy Spirit, but they may choose to ignore it if they choose. What does The Bible say about those who choose to ignore the Gift of Salvation? It says they will spend eternity apart from God in Hell. What is Bono saying here? The same thing: We don't always have to fire Scripture about repentance like a spiritual machine gun in order to witness. It is much more effective in this way to lead people to Christ without sounding accusatory and judgemental. I just wanted your thoughts because it's from the same interview! God Bless You All!!

08-29-2006, 12:22 AM	#13
80sU2isBest Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid Join Date: Nov 2000 Posts: 4,600 Local Time: 06:31 PM	I agree with every word Bono wrote. Kudos!

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