Maoilbheannacht

Look mr. ANTI-U2 TROLL, Madonna has multiple arena shows that are currently NOT soldout in places like Chicago and San Francisco area. Were not talking the expensive tickets, were talking the low priced tickets like the $98 dollar tickets. U2 soldout all of its tickets in that price range back in 2005 in minutes. They played 6 soldout shows in Chicago and 4 in San Francisco.

Maoilbheannacht

Since the Anti-U2 TROLL cannot see, I will help him with an example.

Lets take the New York City market, U2's 2005 results vs. Madonna's 2006 results:


U2 in 2005

22, 23. East Rutherford, New Jersey : May 17-18, 2005 : Continental Airlines Arena : GROSS $3,838,066 : ATTENDANCE 40,347 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

24. New York, New York : May 21, 2005 : Madison Square Garden : GROSS $1,907,086 : ATTENDANCE 18,415 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

71, 72, 73, 74, 75. New York, N.Y. : Oct. 7-8, 10-11, 14, 2005 : Madison Square Garden : GROSS $9,658,009 : ATTENDANCE 93,275 : SHOWS 5 : SELLOUTS 5

96, 97. New York, N.Y. : Nov. 21-22, 2005 : Madison Square Garden : GROSS $3,859,828 : ATTENDANCE 37,314 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2


U2's total GROSS and ATTENDANCE in New York City area in 2005:
GROSS: $19,262,989
Attendance: 189,351

In addition, all shows soldout within hours of going on sale.

Madonna total Gross and Attendance from her 6 shows in New York city area in 2006:
GROSS: $16,507,855
Attendance: 91,841


As you can see, more people saw U2 in 2005 than saw Madonna in 2006 in New York City area, and U2 grossed more in the New York City area in 2005 than Madonna did in 2006.

By every measure of the industry. U2 is the larger draw. Even the tour company that promotes both U2 and Madonna, Live Nation, would agree that U2 is the larger drawing artist. Arthur Fogal and Michael Cohl would both agree that U2 is the largest drawing artist. Michael Cohl stated in 1997 during the POPMART tour that the only artist that could do more business than U2 on the road was the Rolling Stones.

Maoilbheannacht

Madonna has two shows in Chicago right now. One of them is not soldout and still has tickets remaining in the $98 dollar price level. Both shows do not have seating behind the stage.

When U2 plays Chicago in 2009, do you really think if they only played TWO ARENA SHOWS in Chicago that there would still be tickets in the $98 dollar range on sale months after the first day of sale?

U2 could sellout two stadium shows in Chicago, yet Madonna cannot even sellout two arena shows in this market.

NINTY-EIGHT DOLLAR TICKETS ARE STILL ON SALE for MADONNA in Chicago and she only has two shows there in Arena's. Were talking a max capacity of 30,000 people for two shows given that she is not selling seats behind the stage. Yet, there are still $98 dollar tickets available. Chicago, the THIRD LARGEST CITY IN THE UNITED STATES.

Moggio

I think you're also forgetting that Madonna tours quite frequently nowadays. She's on the road every other year. So, she's not going to play all the same markets on each tour.

Nope.

I didn't say that was the only reason.

Well, actually, one of her two Spanish shows were "listed" as sold out, as was her show in the Netherlands this year. But again, attendance is not the judge of concert demand, since it can be adjusted based on what the ticket prices and venue capacities are set at, in relation to what ...the GROSS is.

Btw, Spain & The Netherlands are not small countries.

Moggio

Look, "Mr. I can't admit that Madonna is a larger draw than U2 overall"...it doesn't matter whether or not the shows were "listed" as sold out. Madonna GROSSES more and has HIGHER ticket prices than U2 in most markets both have played in. That means she's the larger draw. Period.

No, they didn't. Tickets are ALWAYS available.

Moggio

That's not true because many of the shows in the fall of 2005 for U2 were return engagements, where a certain percentage of the same fans came back to see them again. And in this case, U2's NYC metro area gross for this particular tour WITHOUT return engagements, was around $14 million.

Cohl said that 11 years ago. Demand changes. And he was referring to active touring artists. At that point in time, Madonna hadn't toured in 4 years...and didn't tour for another 4 years after that...

Moggio

Ok, GROSS is what is judged when judging concert demand, NOT attendance. Why is that so hard to understand?

Madonna grossed nearly $9.3 million in Chicago in 2006. This year that gross will probably be closer to $11 million once her boxscores are released from this leg of her Sticky & Sweet tour. Whereas, WITHOUT return engagements considered, U2 grossed about $8 million in Chicago in 2005. And next year, if there are no returns in Chicago (there probably will be), then U2 will probably gross nearly $10 million...

Maoilbheannacht

In fact, some of her recent strong grosses and sales in certain markets is because of the fact she has not played that certain market in 15 or 20 years, or in fact has never played the market before. She played Ireland a few years back, but failed to sellout her only show ever in Ireland. Yeah, but she is one of the top drawing artist in the world?!?!?


When your unable to buy tickets from ticketmaster for a concert, the concert is soldout. Sometimes more tickets may be released later. For all of U2's Chicago and San Francisco shows, they initially soldout all the seats made available within hours. People attempted to buy tickets after a couple of hours and were turned away.

In contrast, tickets have been available EVERY DAY for Madonna's shows in Chicago and the San Francisco area this year.


The Amsterdam Arena can hold 55,000 , and the capacity for her show only when up to 50,000. Tickets were available all the way up to show time. With U2, all three concerts were soldout the day they were put on sale, 55,000 per show.


Attendance is an indicator that can show whether demand was close to being met or not. When a concert sellsout in on hour, clearly, demand is still available for more tickets. When a concert sells out just before the start of the show, or not at all, one can confidently say that demand was met in that market or nearly met.


In terms of physical land area, they are indeed small. Netherlands is half the size of Ireland. Any concert that occurs within the Netherlands is in close proximity to the entire population of the country. The fact that Madonna could not sellout the entire 55,000 seat Amsterdam Arena is very revealing.

Maoilbheannacht

Well then how come you could not purchase tickets from ticketmaster two hours after U2's shows in Chicago went on sale? Perhaps tickets are always available in your little fantasy world, but in the real world, the main ticket distributer has a finite amount of tickets available that does run out if enough people come in purchase tickets.

You have not been able to name a single market in North America where if you add up the grosses, Madonna has grossed more than U2.

Maoilbheannacht

What you don't understand is that the fall portion of the tour went on sale in March, just one month after the Spring portion of tour had gone sale, and well before the actual start of the tour in the Spring. You might be able to make some sort of limited argument along those lines if the tickets had gone on sale AFTER the band had played the show in that particular area, but that was not the case. The on sale dates for all these shows were very close together and soldout before a single show on the tour was even played.

Instead of playing games, look at the math. Then also considered that U2 did not fully meet demand in the New York City Market.

Madonna was not considered to be inactive then and was not as popular as U2 was on her earlier tours either. Even though 1997 was a low point for U2, Cohl admitted the fact that they were still stronger on the road than anyone else in the industry with the exception of the Rolling Stones. Thats an undeniable fact. You can't find a single major tour industry figure who would agree with your absurd claim that Madonna is a bigger drawing artist than U2.

Maoilbheannacht

Here's a little NEWSFLASH for ya: You know how Madonna got to nearly 9.3 million in Chicago on the confessions tour? She played 4 SHOWS!

You know how many shows she is playing in Chicago on the Sticky And Sweet Tour? TWO.

So, according to you, Madonna is going to gross $5.5 million dollars for Each of her Chicago shows on Sticky And Sweet Tour!!! You said $11 million dollar gross!

Essentially, Madonna's average gross for each of her Chicago shows will have to be 2.5 times the gross she made per show on the Confessions tour in order to hit the $11 million mark in Chicago that you claim she will be able to do.

I think its time for you to cut your losses and admit your up the creek without a paddle.

Moggio

So what? Madonna GROSSES more than U2 in most markets worldwide that they have both played in. Period.

Yes.

Ireland is only one small country. I can't believe you're using that as an example.

Promoters hold back the best seats in the house for scalpers/brokers, VIPs, etc. ANYONE who knows ANYTHING about the concert business knows that. It's a well-known fact.

That's because her ticket prices are HIGHER. Which essentially means, that the shows will take longer to fill up.

I know that.


No, they weren't. For reasons already stated.


No. The GROSS is. For the ONE MILLIONTH TIME.

No concert is EVER sold out. And attendance can be adjusted. For reasons already stated.

I wasn't talking about land mass. I was talking about population.


She still grossed over $8.1 million there. She's hugely popular in that country.

Moggio

Promoters hold back the best seats in the house for scalpers/brokers, VIPs, etc. Don't you know ANYTHING about the concert business?

The Forum Los Angeles 40,044 / 40,044 (sellout) $7,686,380

MGM Grand Garden Las Vegas 27,528 / 27,528 (sellout) $7,257,750

HP Pavilion at San Jose San Jose 27,024 / 27,024 (sellout) $4,761,555

Staples Center Los Angeles 14,158 / 14,158 (sellout) $2,804,583

Save Mart Center Fresno 20,154 / 20,154 (sellout) $3,749,800

Glendale Arena Phoenix 28,820 / 28,820 (sellout) $4,890,090

United Center Chicago 52,000 / 52,000 (sellout) $9,271,790

Bell Centre Montreal 34,940 / 34,940 (sellout) $5,670,150

Hartford Civic Center Hartford 21,558 / 21,558 (sellout) $3,451,235

Madison Square Garden New York 91,841 / 91,841 (sellout) $16,507,855

TD Banknorth Garden Boston 36,741 / 36,741 (sellout) $6,337,115

Wachovia Center Philadelphia 29,749 / 29,749 (sellout) $4,639,775

Boardwalk Hall Atlantic City 12,322 / 12,322 (sellout) $3,246,100

American Airlines Arena Miami 30,410 / 30,410 (sellout) $5,568,485



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You have to be joking?!

Moggio

What you don't understand is that a certain percentage of fans return to see artists, if they return to their market months later on the same tour. It doesn't really matter when tickets go on sale in this case, as long as it was after the initial show's on sale dates...


Funny, I was just going to say the same thing to you.

At the point in time their NYC metro area shows happened, they met demand.

Yes, she was. Not touring for seven years is considered inactive.

That's actually true, overall. But in Australia she played THREE STADIUM SHOWS in each Melbourne & Sydney in 1993.

That's not what he said.

The stats speak for themselves.

Moggio

I said PROBABLY an $11 million gross.

So what? You're forgetting that Madonna's Chicago show prices are between $55-$575 this year. She'll probably still gross in the ballpark of $10-$11 million once the boxscores are released. And that's what counts.


You know, if you enrolled in a school of concert demand, you'd fail Grade 1. Simply because you don't even understand that attendance can be adjusted, based on what the venue capacities & ticket prices are set at, in relation to what the GROSS is.

Bravo!