Mixed feelings about Vertigo...

U2_Guy · 09-24-2004, 05:37 AM

It's a song that will please most non-U2 fans (ppl who use/d to think U2 is too soft), definetely. It's a brave new single. I played it for my 15 year old cousin and he went wild.

My question: is that a good thing?

It could be a good thing if those non-U2 fans who like Vertigo so much start to dig on the U2 discography and become fans. But if/when they do that, they won't find other "Vertigo-like" songs (from pre-Boy singles to War, U2 made similar sounding songs but i'm sure they won't please ppl who will discover U2 because of Vertigo cause production back then was very weak in the sense that the sounds were flat and thin).

And what is left for old fans like myself? I'm going to be honest: if Vertigo is a sign of what HTDAAB will be like, i'll definetely lose any hope that U2 will ever provide us again with songs of the caliber of One, WOWY, The Fly, UTEOTW, (UV)LMW, WTSHNN, Lemon, Stay, YBR, NYD, TUF, IGC, AIWIY, or even Gone, Please, Zooropa, DD... Groundbreakin songs, great sonic experiments, deep meaning lyrics...songs that talk straight to my heart.

Vertigo - although it's a brave first single - is an empty song. It ends before it starts. It didn't say anything to me... Silly lyrics... Even Discoteque had deeper lyrics...much deeper btw...not to mention The Fly... OMG, i don't like ATYCLB but i reckon BD had deeper/better lyrics! Vertigo sounds like an excuse for U2 to do a Hives kind of song to please 2004/5 kids around the world.

When i compare Vertigo to much more mature records like those from AB to Pop i can't help but feel that U2 is retrogressing... And i started to feel that way with ATYCLB and it's infamous Elevation song... ATYCLB is my least favorite U2 record. I get myself listening to October much more than i listen to ATYCLB. I don't even remember the last time i played ATYCLB... I don't feel the need to listen to it... I can see why many ppl liked it but for me it says nothing... not lyrically, not musically.

I really hope Vertigo isn't a portrait of what HTDAAB is like. I still have faith in U2. And i get the feeling that Miracle Drug will bring back the soaring, crescendo qualities that i love so much about U2. And i hope the other songs bring back the sonic experiments and the meaningful lyrics.

AussieU2fanman · 09-24-2004, 05:46 AM

Bono stated that Vertigo is NOTHING like anything on the album, it's a completely one off (which is anything but a bad thing).

u2ulysses · 09-24-2004, 05:53 AM

How often do songs on a U2 album sound the same? I highly doubt all of HTDAAB will be like "Vertigo".

Also, I strongly disagree with your comment about the lyrics.

Dr_Macphisto · 09-24-2004, 06:00 AM

Yeah i see what you're saying. I also made the Hives connection actually too. Got you gotta admit it is a pretty bitchin' song.

Let's all wait for the new album... there will be plenty of classics.

VERTIGO ROCKS WOO!

Flying FuManchu · 09-24-2004, 06:01 AM

I disagree with Bono... ABOY sounds like a relative of Vertigo from what we've heard so far....

As for the first post... Hey I've been wondering the opposite... When will U2 start making more shallow songs, fast, with no overdone crescendos, no lyrics that are full of deep and heavy stuff but rather easy to understand and catchy all-encompassing sentiments... Songs that get to the point and are fun, filled with youth and vigor...

Lo-Fi · 09-24-2004, 06:06 AM

U2 are a hard band to follow, some records talk to some people while others don't due to their broad band of styles and influences. For example ATYCLB never spoke to me, but it spoke to others. I wouldn't say it's a poor record, it just wasn't the record for me.

Where as I loved Pop, but that record wasn't liked by quite a few. To me, it's not about if they've lost it or not, it's about if where U2 are muscially right now is where you are at as well. Personally Vertigo was a song I wanted to hear when ATYCLB came out, so I've waited a long time for this and I'm just enjoying the moment.

Maybe HTDAAB will be another record that won't say anything to you, I hope not, but there's every chance that might be the case. Such is U2 evolution, some fans do get isolated along the way, but they pick up new one's and even pick up some old one's as well. I hope you're not disappointed with the new record, I really do.

ShellBeThere · 09-24-2004, 06:51 AM

Yeah, I can't imagine all of a U2 album being the same deal...
Bono's comments about Vertigo being a one-off aside even...

It's a bloody brilliant one-off, and I'm an old fan who really likes the stirring crescendo U2 does so well.

I can't argue with your list of great U2 work U2_guy , but I also appreciate their ...how to put it...more widely accessible bits? I love love love the sonic experimentation and inspired lyrics of AB and Zooropa and Pop...

But I don't dislike Elevation either.
It's not profound like AB stuff, but it's fun and evocative..
I can "get" where they want to take me with it, if that makes any sense. I don't like ATYCLB as I do AB, nowhere near really. But I can 'get' where they want to take me with the songs and I like the trip. With AB...and I suspect with at least some of the tracks we'll be getting in HTDAAB...it's totally soul-stirring and when I listen I feel like I'm in the presence of genius, ya know? Instead of just good smart song-makers.

But Hive-like though Vertigo may be, I just don't get the same wow-vibe from the hives that I get from U2's take on the sound. U2 surely listen to what's hot and realize they have an audience to speak to, so it's not really a surprise that they reflect what's in the current soundscape. But it's not without the soaring qualities that makes U2 distinctive and fab imho..
I liked all the techno-y stuff they did in the 90s quite a lot,
and am hoping that HTDAAB will end up reflecting a different sort of sonic experimentation, stripped down effect-wise but like AB-era in that way and with at least some of the great lyric work!

But I can't forget how the world was different when AB and zooropa came out, and U2 captured a lot about that moment in time. I'm hoping that HTDAAB gets at least some of the intimacy and complex bittersweet emotional content that AB had and adds it to the view of the crazed cold changed world we have now.
It's 19 year olds who are serving in afghanistan and iraq,
and I love the idea of U2 speaking to them...

cheers all!

ShellBeThere · 09-24-2004, 09:34 AM

Okay U2_Guy,
Now I get to challenge more confidently your claims that the lyrics to Vertigo are totally empty...
They're all about the war, and terrorism, and boys in the field, and spain specifically, hence the spanish...

some of us have been playing with this on other threads...
I flashed on it and then LeopoldoBloom pointed out further that the track is 3:11 long...

1 2 3 catorce... 3+11 is 14/catorce...
it's spanish soldiers /spanish civilians reacting to the 3/11 terrorist train bombing, big targets in spain in the video...

all of this all of this can be yours...
just give me what I want and nobody gets hurt...

US getting spain to commit troops, terrorist fuckers getting (according to some) spain to return troops...
your head can't rule your heart...
bullets flying while the boys play rock and roll....
donde esta? in a place called vertigo, reeling!
give me something I can fe-eeel!!
your love can teach me how to kneel...
it's intimate and personal experience of dizzy and
some throw-away feel to a very very pointed song if you dig into
the imagery a little and get the warfield chaos and even the hostage-taking power-swapping crazy feel of confident voice and then the pleading feeee--eel, kneeee-eel.

This is *not* Elevation dearie!
(imho, of course...)
even if it's hiding in just-wag-your-head-along tune-age.
It's got *a lot* going on...

cheerio all!

youtwohearts · 09-24-2004, 09:49 AM

ShellBeThere, excellent answer. I have been a long time War time U2 Fan and I didn't even see the exact relevance in the words. Typical U2 political statement.

U2Guy-I was wondering how long you have been a fan? Not that your opinions are unjustified if that is how you feel but some of the songs you choose to mention aren't exactly the definition of U2. I agree with you ATYCLB is not one of my favorites but it certainly had songs with heart and meaning.

Michael Griffiths · 09-24-2004, 09:57 AM

Why is it that so many people assume an entire album will sound the same as the lead single? Let me ask you this: Does 'Discotheque' represent the entire sound and dimension of Pop? How about 'Desire' for Rattle and Hum? How about 'The Fly' for Achtung Baby? Each lead single is hand picked for a desired effect. Sometimes those effects are different. In this case, the aim was to attract a mass audience to the album. That doesn't mean the album itself is going to sound the same. It never has before, so why should it now? Each U2 album is comprised of songs in all sorts of sounds, styles, scope, and dimension.

Another thing I find a bit funny - often it's the very people complaining about U2 no longer breaking new ground who also absoulutely adore a song like 'Lady with the Spinning Head' and complain U2 never released it as a single - not exactly underground avant-gaurd stuff! In fact, 'Vertigo' is not too far removed from something like 'Lady with the Spinning Head', yet now that something along those lines is the new lead single, it's suddenly a bad thing to have a fun song out on the radio...but as a semi rare b-side it would have been genius? Interesting, indeed....

TheBrazilianFly · 09-24-2004, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AussieU2fanman
Bono stated that Vertigo is NOTHING like anything on the album, it's a completely one off (which is anything but a bad thing).

He did? Does that mean that the album doesn't have any other rockers like that?!

Michael Griffiths · 09-24-2004, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheBrazilianFly

He did? Does that mean that the album doesn't have any other rockers like that?!

The album is supposed to have only about 3 rock songs. The rest of the songs are described as varied, about big themes, and many are supposed to be "big" songs that get knocked "out of the stadium". My impression is that each song on the album is a "home run".

Roland of Gilead · 09-24-2004, 10:15 AM

It is cool if you're not sure of Vertigo. There is nothing to sweat about here.

Bad, Until the End of the World, One Tree Hill, Gone, and Kite. That is a list of my 5 all time favorite U2 songs ever. None of them were ever singles (One Tree Hill was for NZ only).

U2_Guy · 09-24-2004, 10:47 AM

I'm 29, real fan since 1991. Have all the 7 inches (including U2-3) and CD singles. All U2-U2/member related works...everything from the boys.

The songs i quoted are not the only ones i like... They are the songs i remember now that touches my heart-mind-spirit the most. I don't see a problem with them. Do you?

I still have hope in the new album...

t8thgr8 · 09-24-2004, 11:22 AM

chill out man, dont take everything so damned hard.

vertigo is just a fun all out rocker, something much needed in the melting pot of u2 songs. for what it is, its fuckin awesome. its something that can get you going to start your day, work out a little harder, or....drive a little faster. its a song for energy, and a damned good one at that.

i love this song. u2 pick up different genres of music and put their take on it. they always excel at whatever style they decide to go with, something no band can really say. think about it.....

techno.......check
blues.........check
euro pop....check
soul............check
etc..

now heres our punk rock. and they did it again.

09-24-2004, 05:37 AM	#1
U2_Guy Refugee Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,004 Local Time: 04:46 PM	Mixed feelings about Vertigo... It's a song that will please most non-U2 fans (ppl who use/d to think U2 is too soft), definetely. It's a brave new single. I played it for my 15 year old cousin and he went wild. My question: is that a good thing? It could be a good thing if those non-U2 fans who like Vertigo so much start to dig on the U2 discography and become fans. But if/when they do that, they won't find other "Vertigo-like" songs (from pre-Boy singles to War, U2 made similar sounding songs but i'm sure they won't please ppl who will discover U2 because of Vertigo cause production back then was very weak in the sense that the sounds were flat and thin). And what is left for old fans like myself? I'm going to be honest: if Vertigo is a sign of what HTDAAB will be like, i'll definetely lose any hope that U2 will ever provide us again with songs of the caliber of One, WOWY, The Fly, UTEOTW, (UV)LMW, WTSHNN, Lemon, Stay, YBR, NYD, TUF, IGC, AIWIY, or even Gone, Please, Zooropa, DD... Groundbreakin songs, great sonic experiments, deep meaning lyrics...songs that talk straight to my heart. Vertigo - although it's a brave first single - is an empty song. It ends before it starts. It didn't say anything to me... Silly lyrics... Even Discoteque had deeper lyrics...much deeper btw...not to mention The Fly... OMG, i don't like ATYCLB but i reckon BD had deeper/better lyrics! Vertigo sounds like an excuse for U2 to do a Hives kind of song to please 2004/5 kids around the world. When i compare Vertigo to much more mature records like those from AB to Pop i can't help but feel that U2 is retrogressing... And i started to feel that way with ATYCLB and it's infamous Elevation song... ATYCLB is my least favorite U2 record. I get myself listening to October much more than i listen to ATYCLB. I don't even remember the last time i played ATYCLB... I don't feel the need to listen to it... I can see why many ppl liked it but for me it says nothing... not lyrically, not musically. I really hope Vertigo isn't a portrait of what HTDAAB is like. I still have faith in U2. And i get the feeling that Miracle Drug will bring back the soaring, crescendo qualities that i love so much about U2. And i hope the other songs bring back the sonic experiments and the meaningful lyrics.

09-24-2004, 10:15 AM	#13
Roland of Gilead Rock n' Roll Doggie Premium Silver Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Mid-World Posts: 3,358 Local Time: 09:46 AM	It is cool if you're not sure of Vertigo. There is nothing to sweat about here. Bad, Until the End of the World, One Tree Hill, Gone, and Kite. That is a list of my 5 all time favorite U2 songs ever. None of them were ever singles (One Tree Hill was for NZ only). __________________ "First comes smiles, then lies. Last is gunfire." - Roland Deschain, of Gilead.

09-24-2004, 10:47 AM	#14
U2_Guy Refugee Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,004 Local Time: 04:46 PM	85076692 I'm 29, real fan since 1991. Have all the 7 inches (including U2-3) and CD singles. All U2-U2/member related works...everything from the boys. The songs i quoted are not the only ones i like... They are the songs i remember now that touches my heart-mind-spirit the most. I don't see a problem with them. Do you? I still have hope in the new album...

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09-24-2004, 05:46 AM	#2
AussieU2fanman Refugee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Adelaide, Australia Posts: 1,637 Local Time: 03:16 AM	Bono stated that Vertigo is NOTHING like anything on the album, it's a completely one off (which is anything but a bad thing).

09-24-2004, 05:53 AM	#3
u2ulysses The Fly Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 221 Local Time: 11:46 AM	How often do songs on a U2 album sound the same? I highly doubt all of HTDAAB will be like "Vertigo". Also, I strongly disagree with your comment about the lyrics.

09-24-2004, 06:00 AM	#4
Dr_Macphisto War Child Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Urbana, OH Posts: 676 Local Time: 01:46 PM	Yeah i see what you're saying. I also made the Hives connection actually too. Got you gotta admit it is a pretty bitchin' song. Let's all wait for the new album... there will be plenty of classics. VERTIGO ROCKS WOO!

09-24-2004, 06:01 AM	#5
Flying FuManchu New Yorker Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Used to live in Chambana. For now the Mid-South. Posts: 3,040 Local Time: 11:46 AM	I disagree with Bono... ABOY sounds like a relative of Vertigo from what we've heard so far.... As for the first post... Hey I've been wondering the opposite... When will U2 start making more shallow songs, fast, with no overdone crescendos, no lyrics that are full of deep and heavy stuff but rather easy to understand and catchy all-encompassing sentiments... Songs that get to the point and are fun, filled with youth and vigor...

09-24-2004, 06:06 AM	#6
Lo-Fi War Child Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Scotland Posts: 778 Local Time: 04:46 PM	U2 are a hard band to follow, some records talk to some people while others don't due to their broad band of styles and influences. For example ATYCLB never spoke to me, but it spoke to others. I wouldn't say it's a poor record, it just wasn't the record for me. Where as I loved Pop, but that record wasn't liked by quite a few. To me, it's not about if they've lost it or not, it's about if where U2 are muscially right now is where you are at as well. Personally Vertigo was a song I wanted to hear when ATYCLB came out, so I've waited a long time for this and I'm just enjoying the moment. Maybe HTDAAB will be another record that won't say anything to you, I hope not, but there's every chance that might be the case. Such is U2 evolution, some fans do get isolated along the way, but they pick up new one's and even pick up some old one's as well. I hope you're not disappointed with the new record, I really do.

09-24-2004, 06:51 AM	#7
ShellBeThere War Child Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: ann arbor mi Posts: 893 Local Time: 11:46 AM	Yeah, I can't imagine all of a U2 album being the same deal... Bono's comments about Vertigo being a one-off aside even... It's a bloody brilliant one-off, and I'm an old fan who really likes the stirring crescendo U2 does so well. I can't argue with your list of great U2 work U2_guy , but I also appreciate their ...how to put it...more widely accessible bits? I love love love the sonic experimentation and inspired lyrics of AB and Zooropa and Pop... But I don't dislike Elevation either. It's not profound like AB stuff, but it's fun and evocative.. I can "get" where they want to take me with it, if that makes any sense. I don't like ATYCLB as I do AB, nowhere near really. But I can 'get' where they want to take me with the songs and I like the trip. With AB...and I suspect with at least some of the tracks we'll be getting in HTDAAB...it's totally soul-stirring and when I listen I feel like I'm in the presence of genius, ya know? Instead of just good smart song-makers. But Hive-like though Vertigo may be, I just don't get the same wow-vibe from the hives that I get from U2's take on the sound. U2 surely listen to what's hot and realize they have an audience to speak to, so it's not really a surprise that they reflect what's in the current soundscape. But it's not without the soaring qualities that makes U2 distinctive and fab imho.. I liked all the techno-y stuff they did in the 90s quite a lot, and am hoping that HTDAAB will end up reflecting a different sort of sonic experimentation, stripped down effect-wise but like AB-era in that way and with at least some of the great lyric work! But I can't forget how the world was different when AB and zooropa came out, and U2 captured a lot about that moment in time. I'm hoping that HTDAAB gets at least some of the intimacy and complex bittersweet emotional content that AB had and adds it to the view of the crazed cold changed world we have now. It's 19 year olds who are serving in afghanistan and iraq, and I love the idea of U2 speaking to them... cheers all!

09-24-2004, 09:34 AM	#8
ShellBeThere War Child Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: ann arbor mi Posts: 893 Local Time: 11:46 AM	Okay U2_Guy, Now I get to challenge more confidently your claims that the lyrics to Vertigo are totally empty... They're all about the war, and terrorism, and boys in the field, and spain specifically, hence the spanish... some of us have been playing with this on other threads... I flashed on it and then LeopoldoBloom pointed out further that the track is 3:11 long... 1 2 3 catorce... 3+11 is 14/catorce... it's spanish soldiers /spanish civilians reacting to the 3/11 terrorist train bombing, big targets in spain in the video... all of this all of this can be yours... just give me what I want and nobody gets hurt... US getting spain to commit troops, terrorist fuckers getting (according to some) spain to return troops... your head can't rule your heart... bullets flying while the boys play rock and roll.... donde esta? in a place called vertigo, reeling! give me something I can fe-eeel!! your love can teach me how to kneel... it's intimate and personal experience of dizzy and some throw-away feel to a very very pointed song if you dig into the imagery a little and get the warfield chaos and even the hostage-taking power-swapping crazy feel of confident voice and then the pleading feeee--eel, kneeee-eel. This is not Elevation dearie! (imho, of course...) even if it's hiding in just-wag-your-head-along tune-age. It's got a lot going on... cheerio all!

09-24-2004, 09:49 AM	#9
youtwohearts New Yorker Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Another Time, Another Place Posts: 3,108 Local Time: 04:46 PM	ShellBeThere, excellent answer. I have been a long time War time U2 Fan and I didn't even see the exact relevance in the words. Typical U2 political statement. U2Guy-I was wondering how long you have been a fan? Not that your opinions are unjustified if that is how you feel but some of the songs you choose to mention aren't exactly the definition of U2. I agree with you ATYCLB is not one of my favorites but it certainly had songs with heart and meaning.

09-24-2004, 09:57 AM	#10
Michael Griffiths Rock n' Roll Doggie Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Playa Del Carmen, Mexico Posts: 3,890 Local Time: 04:46 PM	Why is it that so many people assume an entire album will sound the same as the lead single? Let me ask you this: Does 'Discotheque' represent the entire sound and dimension of Pop? How about 'Desire' for Rattle and Hum? How about 'The Fly' for Achtung Baby? Each lead single is hand picked for a desired effect. Sometimes those effects are different. In this case, the aim was to attract a mass audience to the album. That doesn't mean the album itself is going to sound the same. It never has before, so why should it now? Each U2 album is comprised of songs in all sorts of sounds, styles, scope, and dimension. Another thing I find a bit funny - often it's the very people complaining about U2 no longer breaking new ground who also absoulutely adore a song like 'Lady with the Spinning Head' and complain U2 never released it as a single - not exactly underground avant-gaurd stuff! In fact, 'Vertigo' is not too far removed from something like 'Lady with the Spinning Head', yet now that something along those lines is the new lead single, it's suddenly a bad thing to have a fun song out on the radio...but as a semi rare b-side it would have been genius? Interesting, indeed....

09-24-2004, 11:22 AM	#15
t8thgr8 War Child Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: gulf coast Posts: 990 Local Time: 04:46 PM	chill out man, dont take everything so damned hard. vertigo is just a fun all out rocker, something much needed in the melting pot of u2 songs. for what it is, its fuckin awesome. its something that can get you going to start your day, work out a little harder, or....drive a little faster. its a song for energy, and a damned good one at that. i love this song. u2 pick up different genres of music and put their take on it. they always excel at whatever style they decide to go with, something no band can really say. think about it..... techno.......check blues.........check euro pop....check soul............check etc.. now heres our punk rock. and they did it again.